Originally posted by domonkassyu:

altars and statues acting as reminders..

closing eyes to pray..wall in front, pile of shit in front..or whatever in front are not reminders.

pagans have statues they worship to or remind them of the deities..

like i said..how much diff is it btwn certain sects of christianity having idols acting as reminders and the buddisht temple scenario..

Ok, if that's how you look at it. It is there to remind does not means it is God. Others believed that "their Gods" reside in the statues...that' the BIG difference. Well you are entitled to your opinions.

Originally posted by domonkassyu:

but altars erected to house statues as reminders and "worshipping" god in front of such reminders is totally another matter.

How?

Originally posted by dumbdumb!:

 

just like i can say. the church is against premarital sex. but no christians have premarital sex? sure or not hahaha..

Why not? If Christians is having pre-marital sex while the Church is againt it, who's fault is it? The Church or the Christians ? Or do we now says ALL Christians are having pre-marital sex? That Christianity is about having pre-marital sex?

You need to give proof that Catholics are praying to idols which you cannot because it's simply not the truth.

By having statues does not mean they are worshipped as God. Having a knife and chopper in your home does not make you a murderer because they are used by murderer.

 

Originally posted by domonkassyu:

like what u say, a man praying in front of a statue of JC is just needing a focus in his mind..it is exactly the same act as the guy in the next street praying in front of a buddha statue isnt it??

 

Going by your argument, if a Christian pray with a bible in hand, he is worshipping the bible instead of God? Or if one pray with eyes closed, one is worshipping darkness? What happen when there is a wall in front, are they worshipping the wall?

Worst, we may all be worshipping the pastor instead of God when we pray during service!

 

Originally posted by domonkassyu:

instead of saying the israelis believed in the power of the staff. isnt it more obvious that when the saw moses hands up, they felt a motivation that God is giving the enemies to their hands? im pretty sure staff was not the main point here,nor was it a artifect of miracle. so long as they see moses doing sth, the motivation will differ accordingly.

Are you saying that they beleived in God and got motivation when they see the staff raised?

Originally posted by dumbdumb!:

 

i think that if you use the catholic version, the focus is on the death, the empty cross to me, focuses that Jesus is already up and running around.

this is apart from the teachings that forbid worshipping idols.

The cross is there to remind, without or without Jesus on it. You are right as the Church focus is on the living God.

Yes, the Church is against worshipping idols and no Catholic worship idols. It's just people who insist they do. But the truth is, they don't. That's all.

 

Actually, incense is also used (but not in joss stick form only)....go and check it out.....

Some belived that GOD is in the statues they are worshipping while others know that there is only 1 GOD and the statues are just there - God is not in that statue. The statue is not God.

Just like Christ is not in that statue, Sir Stamford Raffles is not standing along Singapore River but if you see that statue along the river, you remember him right?

Of course you don't need the statue to remind you....but why is it there? To honour Sir Stamford Raffles? Maybe....

As for electric chairs, quite interesting and I wonder what happen if Christ died on an electric chair........

Nothing very much to share this week as the theme is on "Harvest is rich but labours are few" - The focus is on the need to have more priests. Homily include a testimony from a seminarian.

 

 

If your questions is how can one enter Heaven when one is a sinner? Perhaps, below may help:

LK 24:45-48

⁴⁵ He then opened their minds to understand the scriptures,

⁴⁶ and he said to them, 'So it is written that the Christ would suffer and on the third day rise from the dead,

⁴⁷ and that, in his name, repentance for the forgiveness of sins would be preached to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

⁴⁸ You are witnesses to this.

Finally, it all boils down to if your heart truely repent or it is just lips service? You cannot be going Geylang every week and saying every week you are sorry without any real intention to change the way of life that you know is wrong (if you believed that it is so).

Just like if one said sorry for the sake of saying without truely believing that one is wrong and making any effort to change.

Another way to look at this is like a smoker trying to quite because he knows that it is bad for his health. He tried but get tempted to smoke again....but because he really wanted to quit and is serious about it, he will be eventually be able to quit. He will seek help and make efforts to change because he wanted to.

Not just by saying "I want to quit" everyday but continuing to smoke "the last stick". Hope this make some sense.

 

Originally posted by domonkassyu:

drink holy water will most probably cause lots of problems since its a salt solution..as for jesus blood..hmm..yummy?

from where did you get the idea that holy water is a salt solution? No lah, it's just ordinary water that is blessed by a priest.

Today

 

Today evening's Mass was conducted by Fr Mark from Malaysia. He told us an interesting story that I would like to share here.....

A priest from Penang attended a retreat in Mexico and received a standing ovation when he said he is from Penang, Malaysia. Of course he felt good but at the same time confused since he is the only one getting such attention.

Towards the end of the retreat, he  finally knew the answer.......

Years before, at the same retreat, the retreat master asked for volunteers to do the various chores...At retreats, there is no ranks and files and the chores are shared.

When it came to washing the public toilets, there was no volunteer....as expected.

The retreat master asked 3 times for volunteer and at the third time, a hand went up...Bingo, someone has volunteered.

At the end of the retreat, the retreat master aske each and everyone to introduce themselves again.....when it came to the guy who volunteered for toilet washing, he stood up and said that he is Anthony from Malaysia....

The retreat maser asked him, Brother Anthony, can you tell us what you do? Anthony replied : "I am the Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur" !

Here we have a true leader who is here to serve....imagine teh Archbishop washing the toilet daily ?

In line with today's theme, what God wants is our service and not sacrifies...

 

 

 

 

 

The 3 readings of this week is very interesting especially the second reading. The simple word of St Paul has caused great debates among Christians with regards to the subject of salvation. On one extreme are those who believed that deeds are needed for salvation. On the other extreme are those who believed that all works are done by Jesus’s death and nothing else is needed to be done.

As Fr Ambrose Vaz explained during his homily, when St Paul said that no works by man can achieve salvation, he was targeting those who do not believe that Jesus has a part in their salvation. He was telling them that without Jesus, there is nothing that they can do that can lead them to salvation.

Salvation in Hebrew means victory. Jesus is in his resurrection is victorious over sin and death. He has purchased for us with his suffering and death our salvation. He is inviting everybody to join Him in victory. However, people must co-operate with Him in order to join Him in victory over sin and death. How?

In the first readings, Moses said that those who obeyed the commandments  will receive blessings while those who don’t will be cursed.

In the second reading, I found a link that helps to explain what the position of our church. Pls click here http://www.newadvent.org/bible/rom003.htm

And in the Gospel reading, Jesus  said tell us clearly that not all who call “Lord, Lord….” will enter into heaven but those who hear the words and act upon them.

In conclusion,  Christians should be aware that in order to be saved, they need to have both faith and deeds.  As James said in JAS2:14-16 faith is dead without deeds.

Remember that Jesus told us that the 2 most important commandments for us is to love God and our neighbour  which can be found in MT 22:34-40.

Originally posted by dumbdumb!:

hmm.. shrugs, ok, let's let others decide.

Yup.....:)

Originally posted by Chin Eng:

aaa? what question mark.... the blog got no question mark leh.

how does one feel guilty about our own suspected intentions? you mean to say that a person don't understand fully about one's intentions.... and at the same time feel guilty about it....? can be a little more coherent or not hah?

what does "that's it" mean hah? you said it so many times.... so that's it WHAT?!

Ha...ha..ha...That's it.

Originally posted by Chin Eng:

sure or not?

see... it's obviously not "THAT'S IT" afterall the saga continues in your blog.... one dubious claim... 

another dubious claim... i-know-i-suspect-i-don't know

errh? what are you trying to say hah? if you are not in a good mood to type, chill first, otherwise you sound absolute stupid with poorly constructed sentences. just another friendly advice from CE.

Again...ha..ha..ha.. Devil? There is a question mark behind right?

No dubious claims on my blog.....Just my thoughts....

Feeling guilty again about your suspected intentions? Don't lah.....People can read and let them decide.. Ok?

See what happen after your post? Saga continue? conspiracy theories? That's it.

Originally posted by Sumone3:

To reply to you, I choose not to go into detail what Christianity is about. For one thing, even among Christians the Christian experience is different. Not just with Christians, but with people in general. You can have different experiences and even different levels depending on who you meet, where you meet and even when you meet.

I believe God has more than one side to him as well, as like how our own fathers on earth have more than just one side to them. God is not a tool that you summon or some hack you turn on in a game just so that everything goes the way exactly how you want it.

God didn't promise that there won't be rainy days or hard times. God didn't promise everything will be smooth sailing. In fact, sometimes for his sake it gets harder. God didn't promise he'll do exactly what you want, but if you let him he will want the best and allow the best for you.

Believing in Christ doesn't have to be just about going to hell, but also knowing and accepting someone was willing to sacrifice himself for you and you are acknowledging his love and care for you. I'm not asking you to become a believer, but personally, it doesn't have to be all about fear of hell.

Also, the thing about doing good while on earth, I believe we will get rewards based on our deeds. But our deeds can also be about what we want for the other person, or that we know we do will bring a smile to God's face. Like a child who sometimes does something just so that the mother will smile, not in return for something like a cookie or a sweet, but just a simple smile knowing someone you love is pleased with you.

On the other hand, sometimes not doing wrong is because you don't want to see the other person hurt, and not so much about worry how the person will take action against you.

One thing I can tell you is that Christianity is more than just about heaven and hell. And miracles don't always have to be physical in nature.

I agree with you................and hope more will realised this.

Originally posted by Chin Eng:

What Mrlim had posted in his blog: http://mrlimkopi.blogspot.com/

hmm... just wondering... who might mrlim be referring to.....?

on one hand he preaches love and brotherhood, and other, call other people "devil" when others do not agree with him.

Thanks for promoting the blog.......I think you should read the the last sentence as

"The guy who refused to accept facts and abuses others or the bystander who rekindle his falsehood?"

which does not lead to : "call other people "devil" when others do not agree with him."

Originally posted by Chin Eng:

The part in BOLD... is that a promise? and I thought we are just having fun. Remember what I'd said earlier don't make any dubious claims....

No need to expect too much from me..... the folks here know.... I am not really Mr Nice Guy.

Yes, That's it.............

Originally posted by Chin Eng:

 

I see, so you were irritated by dumb2. That's really funny. Bear in mind the context of the apology.... and that is, he was sorry for losing his temper. So, again, in your juvenile mind, what is the reason for the apology - that he should agree with all your views or that he is just sorry for blowing his top?

You're referring to malcom??? give me a break lah. He was posting his comments, and he has every right to do so. That isn't even taunting me.....

Whaddaya mean "as soon as your post appear"? I have been posting daily and he only wrote just a while ago. He's probably busy over the past few days or maybe he has nothing else to say on this matter.

If you again to choose to read it that way, it's up to you. Facts speaks for itself.

Originally posted by Chin Eng:

When did I avoid the sincerity issue? I have already said that whatever apology that was made sounds sincere.Not just that.... in other subsequent posts, dumb2 had cooled down tremendously and attempted to engage you in a friendlier way. However an apology does not amount to agreement on the viewpoints. It was a apology for losing the temper, that's all. What did you expect, dumb2 apologised and then change his mind suddenly to agree with you?

Its sounds sincere to you but for you. Hey, did I also take the same approach? When did I said that he must agree with me? I only said that if you continue to make those posts, I will reply strongly....is that wrong? Or should I let things that I felt as unfounded to go by? Or Is it right to make "dubious claim" and expect others not to response?

Originally posted by Chin Eng:

 

so all those claims were for naughts.... take my advice, don't make too many dubious claims.

Never did.............

Originally posted by dumbdumb!:

bleah, i've already apologised, like 5 times already, are we still on the issue whether i am sincere or not? =x

if he forgiven me, good lor, if he hasn't (and only he would know), then he isn't a very good catholic lor.

in the end, God knows whether i've been sincere or not, or whether limkopi is actually angry or not. if i'm sincere, i'll benefit from this, and will move from one level of faith to the next. if i'm not, then i'll be learning this lesson another time.

if limkopi has truly forgiven me, then he would also benefit from it, if he has not, then it'd be interesting to worship God while bearing grudges against me, which totally goes against the teaching of Christ, then he wouldn't be enjoying worshipping God (because i can't see how anyone can really worship God while bearing so much issues.)

doesn't matter, in the end, we all reap from our own action. if i didn't apologise, i'm going to feel very guilty to worship God in cell group tomorrow. but since i did, i'm reaping peace with myself. so i'm the one who benefits, i wouldn't really be bothered if he thinks i'm sincere or not

if limkopi still wants to up my lorry, of course i'll feel annoyed, and honestly it isn't easy to keep it in and to turn the other cheek, but everytime i don't blow up, it's a personal victory for me. =)

Like you said, you will know if you are sincere or not and others can see too.....and I have said many times not to turn this into our personal feud.

Grudges? It was you who openly declare you hate Catholic and they will go to hell and 90% are ............ Now you said I bear grudges? I don't like or dislike anyone based on their race or religon.

I said that if you continue to post unfounded, provcative or suggestive pots, I will respond strongly....That's all I did.

There is no hard feelings here and I never did want you to agree with me. Chin Eng never did....I only want you to see what you apologised for and the wrong execution part only......I did achieve that.

So what is the issue? Your anger? Like I said before, go and celebrate your victory....

 

 

Originally posted by Chin Eng:

What Mrlim had posted in his blog: http://mrlimkopi.blogspot.com/

hmm... just wondering... who might mrlim be referring to.....?

on one hand he preaches love and brotherhood, and other, call other people "devil" when others do not agree with him.

Ha..ha...ha....your tails is exposing itself.......Chin Eng......let people who is reading here as well as those who read Christians No Offence decide lah.......why conclude for others?

Don't waste time....